Talk:Hard Drive

Unlocking all recipes
Do we know what happens if you've unlocked all but one of the alternative recipes? Does it show the same recipe three times in the MAM? What if everything is unlocked? --CerbrusNL (talk) 07:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


 * As there is currently only 17 Recipes available, And I have collected 18 hard drives so far. When I done researched the 17th drive, there is only 1 choice, not 3 duplicated choices. And completing the 18th drive will simply crash the game, regardless if the engineer opened the MAM UI or not. Crash happens even if the engineer is not at the base. -- Kwjcool321 (talk) 14:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


 * So, you can research the 18th drive, but the research just finishes with no rewards? The MAM just resets to an "idle" state? --CerbrusNL (talk) 15:14, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Update, you cannot research the 18th drive as it will crash the game once it complete the research. -- Kwjcool321 (talk) 15:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Ingredients multiplied by 3
As for original recipes, should the original ingredients be multiplied by 3 so that the comparison can be justified? --Kwjcool321 (talk) 20:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)


 * No, not all recipes multiply the output items by 3. I've added a footnote. --CerbrusNL (talk) 21:12, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Comparing alternate and original recipes
Could someone come out with an idea to add in the info about comparison of the alternative recipes compared to the original? For example the raw resources consumed. For me the item per minutes doesn't really matter, what matter is the items consumed to make another item. --Kwjcool321 (talk) 05:21, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Alternate recipe infobox
I have looked at the biomass page. I would suggest create a new infobox for every possible alternative recipe, such as for steel ingot. That means that would be 3 infoboxes for steel ingot. This will make the crafting usage for respective ingredients automatically updated, easing the maintenance. --Kwjcool321 (talk) 08:22, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Quickwire Cable
Quickwire Cable isn't an available recipe in the game as of Build 99427. 68.43.207.195 22:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It is listed as a recipe in the official data-file. Maybe you haven't unlocked it yet ingame? --Cadaei (talk) 08:14, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I've DM'd you on Discord @Cadaei if you want to discuss it there, if not here's a copy of my DM to you;

Can confirm from 3 different members, including greeny, that the Quickwire Cable recipe is not unlockable via HDDs. Attempting to unlock the recipe will spit the HDD back out stating there aren't any available alt recipes on a fully unlocked save. It is also not unlockable via a HUB milestone, and cannot be seen in the Assembler. Greeny also doesn't use that recipe in his calculator because it's not available in the game. 68.43.207.195 16:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Hard Drive Item ID
I think people might be interested in the ID for some items, in order to cheat them if they so desire, or generally, it's a good idea to have that information available.

Below is the Hard Drive item ID, which I found by checking the save file data while the item was in my inventory.

/Game/FactoryGame/Resource/Environment/CrashSites/Desc_HardDrive.Desc_HardDrive_C — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.253.99.154 (talk • contribs) at 06:39, 9 June 2019‎ (UTC). Please sign your posts with
 * I haven't found a way to spawn in items, is this possible?--Cadaei (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Blueprint paths are added now. Currently I know of no way to use them, though. --Cadaei (talk) 13:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Unlocking Silica Recipe
I was only able to obtain the Silica alternate recipe AFTER unlocking the alternate recipes for Concrete then High Speed Connectors. I hope that helps zero in on what prerequisite unlocks are necessary before unlocking Silica!

Verified. I also obtained the Alternate High Speed Connector before Unlocking silica. Scienceguy31415 (talk) 03:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

I haven't seen the alt silica recipe. The only alts I haven't unlocked are: Enriched Steel Ingot, Plastic, Screw, Caterium Wire. Silica seems to have multiple prerequisites.--Stannius (talk) 16:53, 10 September 2019 (UTC) Update: I am 97.5% sure Screw is a prerequisite. I burned a drive on Screw and after that, Silica finally showed up. --Stannius (talk) 02:26, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

New Experimental recipes June 14 2019
Havent seen a list of new recipes yet, here's the ones I've found so far

Expanded Pocket Dimension +5 Inventory Slots

Inflated Pocket Dimenstion +5 Inventory Slots

Interitus384 (talk) 18:08, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Some more: Uranium Cell: 45 Uranium, 45 Sulfur, 45 Silica, 60 Quickwire => 35 Uranium Cell @ 17,5 per minute

Electromagnetic Control Rod 6 Stator, 3 High-Speed Connector => 3 Electromagnetic Control Rod @ 2 per minute

Nuclear Fuel Rod 50 Uranium Cell, 10 Electromagnetic Control Rod, 3 Crystal Oscillator, 6 Beacon => 3 Nuclear Fuel Rod @ 0.6 minute

Alternate for RCU and Turbo Motor
I've got RCU rught after unlocking alternate for Concrete.

And Turbo Motor after Crystal Computer. But at that time I already had opened alternate for Motor and High Speed Connector.

79.164.89.143 19:09, 9 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Your RCU appearing in that order was a coincidence - I have it and to this day have not unlocked "alt" Concrete (and never will!) I am pretty damn sure RCU does have some prerequisites.  I have been making a detailed list, and can tell you all with 99% certainty that the following were not required: Turbo Motor, Turbofuel.  Also, I have seen it as an option but never spent a hard drive on the following, which I saw before RCU showing up: the alts Crystal Oscillator, Silica, anything with nuclear power, Black Powder, Enriced Steel Ingot, Rubber Cable, Caterium Wire, Motor, Rotor, Stator, Caterium Computer, Caterium Circuit Board.  I probably had Heat Sink unlocked, but not claiming that it's one of the reqs.


 * As for Turbo Motor, I did probably have Crystal Computer, too, but since it was one of the latest ones I have observed (I scan through them with save/load like 15 times every time I unlock), I can only confirm the ones i haven't unlocked or didn't see until after I unlocked it: Crystal Oscillator, Silica, anything with nuclear power, Black Powder, Enriched Steel Ingot, Rubber Cable, Caterium Wire, Motor, Rotor, Stator, Caterium Computer, Caterium Circuit Board, Radio Control Unit, Steel Screw, Modular Frame, Encased I-Beam. Checking my saves showed that I chose to unlock Turbo Motor, saved, and unlocked Crystal Computer *after*.  Between me and the above post, we can know that neither is dependent on the other.


 * I didn't make a list of every item, just ones i thought might count. I'm going to dig in the game files (where is the file for the list people are referencing?) and might even start a new game to find out.


 * Team a113 (talk) 02:54, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Fuel (Alternate )
There is an alt recipe for fuel, however I'd put it right in the 'bad' section. Requires more oil and power. Reddrummer (talk) 03:24, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Cancel my last. It was plastic I was thinking of. Already listed as 'litterally useless' Reddrummer (talk) 03:26, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Alternate Uranium Cell
I finally got the alternate Uranium Cell right after the Enriched Steel Ingot.


 * (the post above is anonymous, and I forget how you deal with that on wikis to insert a signature.)


 * The fact that I have never been shown nuclear alts but just saw Enriched Steel Ingot for the first time *might* be evidence (but not for sure). Team a113 (talk) 02:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Cannot reroll recipes anymore ?
I'm currently playing on the experimental build and wanted a specific recipe. I tried the old trick of saving few seconds before the research is complete, so I can reload and have new options... Looks like it it doesn't work anymore ! Guess we will have to save before a drive analysis and load if the recipes are not the one wanted, but we will have to wait 10min every time...

Ang3lus033 (talk) 04:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * As you might have guessed, to prevent 'cheaty' reroll, save-load doesn't work anymore. You have to save before scanning the hard drive, which means 10mins for the reroll.Kwjcool321 (talk) 15:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Afaik it has always been like that, i.e. save before starting the research. Willi3591 (talk) 09:08, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Good and Bad Alternate Recipe Names
Should the good and bad alternate recipes have the name of the good or bad recipe instead of the name of the product of the recipe? For example: "Rotor" is listed as a good recipe because it removes the need for screws, but there are two alternate recipes for rotors and only one removes the need for screws. Should the good recipe be listed as "Steel Rotor" with a link to the rotor page? 72.199.206.112 23:40, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should be like that, it is just because that section of this page is still holding information from Update 2.Kwjcool321 (talk) 23:53, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Distinguish between early and late game for recipe recommendations
With such a huge number of recipes, not every one of them stays that good as you progress through the game. It depends on which resources you have already automated and how much of them. There are already some words about this in the section, but splitting the useful recipes up into different stages of the game would be pretty handy imo. What do you say?

--Scan (talk) 06:27, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Unlocked all recipes but do not possess all recipes
Hi everyone! I've unlocked all hard drive available in the early access. I can't put more hard drive in the MAM now because it told me that I have researched everything - but the "Heat Exchanger" and "Insulated Crystal Oscillator" recipes are not available... Do you know how it is possible?
 * Some might be still locked behind MAM, the worst case is either save edit for unlock or restart game.Kwjcool321 (talk) 01:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm in a similar position - I have unlocked everything available in MAM (and hub terminal, of course), and I'm still missing the recycled plastic recipe which I really wanted. This is a pre-update 3 save, so maybe it's bugged? -Ygg
 * Update - It's definitely a bug. I managed to fix it by editing my save. There were five recipes that I had to change from "Purchased" to "Not yet available" in Satisfactory Calculator. I suspect it's because the alternate recepies are unlocked by opening higher tier stuff in hub terminal, and update 3 messed up some of the status flags. Like you needed to research oil processing to unlock the recycled plastic recipe, but when you have already researched oil on a pre-update 3 save, and you then load that save into update 3, it never gets unlocked. Something like that. (After I fixed my save, the hub terminal is no longer bugged either - before there were several tiers that were highlighted, indicating there was stuff to unlock, even though there was nothing. Now, none are highlighted.) - Ygg

Add Prerequisites for Inventory Expansion
I’m currently at the beginning of Tier 5 and have researched a total of 57 alternate recipes and Expanded Pocket Dimension, but Inflated Pocket Dimension is not yet showing up, which indicates to me that Inventory Slots obtained from Hard Drives have some prerequisites, which should be listed on the wiki. --ExE Boss (talk) 20:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)


 * So, I’ve unlocked Industrial Manufacturing and Inflated Pocket Dimension showed up among the Hard Drive research results, which leads me to believe that it’s the requirement, but it could also be the total number of scanned Hard Drives, which is at 60 (59 alternate recipes + Expanded Pocket Dimension). --ExE Boss (talk) 00:55, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Prior to Update 3, where MAM research appeared as HUB milestones, the Expanded Pocket Dimension was a Tier 2 milestone and Inflated Pocket Dimension was a Tier 5 milestone. The prerequisites are all stored in docs.json, which confirm that (Exp. Pocket Dimension has, Inf. Pocket Dimension has  ). Ondar111 (talk) 09:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Recipe categorisation changes
the analysis of these is good, but there are some i think could be changed:

turbofuel - i think maybe in useful recipes. it's been stated that it's useful pre-nuclear, but i think it's nice late game to save on nuclear waste as well. nuclear power is technically not sustainable as it requires large nuclear waste dumps, and in the (very) long term even these will fill up and you'd have to start filling more and more of the map up with waste, so could it be argued that in the endgame oil power is technically better?

conversely, i think turbo heavy fuel should go into inefficient recipes. it is admittedly quite a bit better than using the normal residual fuel recipe and putting the compacted coal into coal generators, at 8000MJ compared to 2000 + 2520 = 4520 MJ, but it falls short of diluted packaged fuel which is 6000 + 2520 = 8520 MJ. additionally, it doesn't produce any polymer resin, you can't use excess fuel for plastic/rubber production, and you can't use the other turbofuel recipe later for maximum efficiency. overall i don't really see any reason to use this, unless the game is absolutely refusing to give you the diluted packaged fuel recipe.

fused wire - i don't necessarily think this should be moved up, but it might be worth noting that with this and fused quickwire, you can produce more of both from the same materials. though as has been said, caterium is more precious than copper so it makes sense to keep it in niche.

compacted steel ingot - i feel like this is better than solid steel ingot if you've got a good supply of sulfur. 45% less coal is a big win, and iron is plentiful. --Lillytoujou (talk) 02:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree 50% of your point. The actual ranking is determined by a calculator called Ficsit embetterer. Will edit some of the changes you pointed out.Kwjcool321 (talk) 04:38, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Edit: I have edited the page. The article should now sounds more reasonable.Kwjcool321 (talk) 13:51, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Alloy ingot recipes prerequisites
I've just been offered the iron and copper alloy ingot recipes while still on tier 1. Can someone double-check the prerequisites? 84.112.235.84 18:45, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It is correct, the only listed pre-requisite is listed in italic meaning it's not required to unlock the recipe, rather to use it. --Ondar111 (talk) 08:14, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Bolted Frames
I disagree with bolted frames being in the 'resource-efficient' category. They represent a considerable speed boost, but they're still slightly less resource efficient so should probably be in the mid-game category.
 * Corrected --Ondar111 (talk) 08:14, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Update 4 new recipe analysis
i've run the numbers on these, and come to these conclusions:

--good--

heat-fused frame - uses more nitrogen and oil, only saves on copper. all-round loser, more complex and logistically a total nightmare. https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=1fsOuZrQuMjdrjHvY7Pc https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=MWLErb3ifdXPlKeVDSYH

OC supercomputer - uses a very small amount of nitrogen (4 per supercomputer) to save a lot on bauxite, oil, coal, sulfur, quartz, caterium iron, copper, and limestone. also gets a nice speed boost and uses assemblers rather than manufacturers. significantly more complex than the normal recipe however https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Er0oabvSwSfJe3yV1ARY https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=AHSwgJkQZhWRfa1OnPBj

diluted fuel - same as diluted packaged fuel, but doesn't need the water to be packaged and fuel to be unpackaged which is nice. unlocked later though and needs blenders

coated iron canister - 2 iron plates and a copper sheet in exchange for 2 plastic. good trade, though generally you won't need to mass-produce these, so low priority for unlocking. also uses assemblers rather than constructors

cooling unit - more than halves nitrogen usage and also saves bauxite, oil and quartz in exchange for a bit of caterium. significantly more complex than original recipe however https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=A4HghGdiNZfyjm00NX0b https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=vJykeEPStUYA8TAL3ADm

alclad casing - 50% more aluminium efficiency and a nice speed boost by adding copper. you'll already have copper ingots at your aluminium facility for alclad sheet production, so this is a no brainer. needs assemblers instead of constructors, but you need less of them so oh well.

turbo rigour motor (updated) - uses slightly more caterium and quartz to save a lot of bauxite and oil

--usable--

super-state computer - compared to the original recipe, it saves caterium in exchange for using more oil, and about the same complexity. it's decent compared to the original, but garbage compared to OC supercomputer, which is amazing

classic battery - uses more quartz and to save on sulfur and bauxite. pretty decent trade-off, but quite a lot more complex than the normal recipe. https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=CW1aqjmz0ZCWiyHSPRmr https://u4.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=qwKBDDkTTUCPnZeB56od

steel canister - better than original, but probably not as good as coated iron canister. usable though, especially since you probably dont need a whole lot of canisters

electric motor - uses 1.67 caterium and 1.8 copper per motor in exchange for saving 4.75 coal and 7.4 iron, at about the same complexity. it's alright, though caterium is quite rare and valuable

--garbage--

turbo blend fuel - sort of a weird hybrid between turbofuel and turbo heavy fuel. problem is that not only does turbo heavy fuel suck, making this at least half suck, but it requires petroleum coke too. just over half as efficient as the "normal" recipe, in exchange for saving some coal.

electromagnetic connection rod - same as the old one except 20% slower. so it still sucks, i have no idea why they did this

turbo pressure motor - as well as using a lot of nitrogen, also uses way more baux and coal. why would you do this?

--Lillytoujou (talk) 14:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Added several of those to the article. --Ondar111 (talk) 18:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

-- DennkkarSeffyd (talk) 19:47, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I used the Statisfactory calculator to plan out inputs for the 3 flavors of Turbo motor. I found that to produce one turbo motor per minute, the default recipe uses 88/74 (Bauxite/Quartz per minute), the Turbo Pressure uses 73.5/51.75, and the Turbo Electric (AKA: rigour) uses 72/81. Perhaps things have changed, the calculator is wrong, or I'm just not doing it right, but AFAIK the Turbo Pressure is a winner not a trash tier.

Oil is not a rare resource anymore
Can we stop with throwing things in the inefficient section just cause they use oil? We have 70% more oil than we did when update 3 originally dropped. Also it's always been more plentiful/efficient due to the HOR -> Diluted Fuel -> Recycle Recipes setups than it's been given credit for. --Lundurro (talk) 00:05, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

The new Alternate recipe analysis with WP
It is a good approach but incomplete. Some calculations give strange result, a good exemple is Cable: With WP calculation, Quickwire Cable seems to be the best, but seriously, do you need to save on Iron by using Caterium and Oil (even if it's just a small amount of each)? Especially in the endgame, Caterium and Oil are really important for mass production of advanced items. Iron is quite abondant and will be never fully utilized, especilly if alternate receipes with Steel replacing Iron are used (as the WP method seems to advise).

Maybe adding a utility value or hierarchy for each ore will solve this kind of problem. Ctim1989 (talk) 18:30, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The WP has already taken resource rarity in account. For example, as iron is as 7 times as abundant as Caterium, using 1 caterium to save 7 iron is meaningless, but if it saves 8 iron ores, then it is meaningful. But overall there are a lot of recipes saving a tiny bit of WP while giving too much of disadvantages, and those recipes will not be prioritized.
 * It is indeed true that default cable recipe is still the best, i have specified this issue when analyzing higher recipes, such as computers, that default recipe of cable will be preferred. There are many other cases where default recipes are still the best. Thanks for your highlight.Kwjcool321 (talk) 10:01, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you, the WP already take resource rarity in account, but my point is about ressource "utility". I think it could be a good idea to add a column with the Sink value used (lower is better). For exemple for Cable : Default: 120 Wire/min = 720 Sink value

Quickwire cable: 16.36 Quickwire/min = 278.12 10.91 Rubber/min = 654.6 Total 932.72 Sink value

Even by using Sink value of ore, this calculation gives default better : 35.90 for default vs 52.78 for Quickwire (I take a sink value of 7 for oil, similar to caterium)Ctim1989 (talk) 12:02, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting way of analyze resource, would consider it, but not before all the remaining alts are fully analyzed. Current progress is about halfway. You could also add that into a new column by yourself, but only work for the pages that have been analyzed to prevent broken table.Kwjcool321 (talk) 12:36, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Add calculation for Sink value on some basic items. I didn't write any definition for each value (my english is not very good), but the idea is: "Sink value input (item)" represents the complexity involved for the setup (lower is better), "Sink value input (ore)" represents the 'value' of used ore (lower is better, result are commonly close with WP, but give another way of analyze), "Sink value output" usefull for ratio calculation and will be interesting with byproduct recipes (higher is better). I take a Sink value of 7 for Oil (similar to Caterium) and 0 for water. Sink value for fluids must be calculated (ratio of the Sink value when packaged ?)Ctim1989 (talk) 11:39, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * For packaged fluids, make sure to consider the value for canister. Similarly, non-packaged fluid should take the packaged value, subtract the canister.Kwjcool321 (talk) 16:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I hope I'm doing this right, but I just wanted to give a little feedback on this section as someone who's a little more casual to the game. I appreciate deriving a mathematical approach to all the alternate recipes, but some of it is still a little hard to understand and when i try to focus on how to interpret it my eyes just glaze over. Even though it was a little subjective I really preferred just plain english when it came to analyzing the alternate recipes. I find myself often just referring back to the older version of the section. 96.27.126.43 19:58, 5 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The old analysis wasn't removed entirely, rather just moved. I moved the link higher up in the section so it's more visible.
 * I concur that plain English is without doubt easier to read and comprehend than tables with math, but the math solution is more fitting to the un-opinionated and un-biased style the wiki should be in. The "opinionated" analysis does not meet that requirement, as it is rather a reflection of the play style a certain group of people (usually wiki editors) who had created it, which may not fit every player.
 * And yes, you are doing this right, thank you for giving feedback. --Ondar111 (talk) 21:10, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

I note that several of the pages state they are not using the WIP-approved recipes: for example, Reinforced Iron Plate lists: Iron Plate#Alternate recipes analysis - Default Iron Plate Why was the "Default Iron Plate" used? If Default Iron Plate is considered "better", then why are we bothering with the WIP? There's certainly no mention in the Iron Plate page's Alternate Recipe section about why Default Iron Plate might be preferred. If we are going to ignore WIP results for items, we should talk about why on THAT item's page.

What this means is, if I am trying to get an idea of whether or not I should use an alternate recipe, I can no longer look anywhere sensible. If I want to know if the Crystal Oscillator's alternate is good, I have to go find some item that uses oscillators and see if they allowed the best WIP recipe, or overrode it. It's kind of frustrating?

Proposed solution: If we ever disregard the WIP-approved result for an item, that item's page should show that and explain why.

Final comment: if WIP has had all of this tweaking going on, then it's hardly an unbiased "mathematical" way to weigh one against another. I have no objection to using it, but make no mistake - the way we are setting up the WIP calculation is FULL of opinion, and is no more objective than the older list was. One way or another, it reflects the opinions of the wiki editors.

(Can any editor tweak the WIP calculation mechanic, btw?)

Actual Final Comment: It was really handy to have the analysis all on one page. Now I have to pull up 3 separate pages to help choose which alternate recipe I unlock. Could we have one page with all the analysis again?

24.163.63.221LWM
 * Thanks for your kind feedback. We will add-in explanation on why certain products will disregard WP. Regarding combining pages, we are against it, as we can only compare recipes of same product. Compare recipes of different product has little meaning. Also, as we expect more alternate recipes to be released, the combined page woll gradually become more messy and hard to manage.Kwjcool321 (talk) 06:50, 15 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I'd also like to add that the point of separating it and removing it all from one page was to get away from the idea of there always being a "best" recipe, and to instead highlight what each recipe actually does. A list of what recipes are good is always going to be biased to certain playstyles and preferences, and it's best to get as close to possible with just presenting the strengths and weaknesses of each recipe in as much isolation as possible. Unfortunately because recipes inherently rely on other recipes one of them has to be chosen for analyzing more complex recipes. But, just because those were the recipes chosen by the method of the analysis doesn't mean they are the "good" recipes; they were just chosen to be used for further analysis. There are even plenty of examples where multiple recipes for intermediaries are actually used to feed the final recipe.
 * I do agree maybe some extra written analysis on strengths and weaknesses of recipes that aren't apparent from just the number analysis might be nice; some of which goes into deciding against using the most WP efficient recipe for analyzing more complex recipes.Lundurro (talk) 07:04, 15 June 2021 (UTC)